58-Ramblings
00:00:00 Speaker: I'm recording this right after I keynoted for the Reinventing the Future of Learning conference in Manila last night. I've been thinking about a lot about why the AI stupefaction message that I've been sharing with is resonating so deeply right now. And I'm going to tie that today with a couple of other thought leaders in today's podcast. Welcome.
00:00:27 Speaker: Again, I'm your host, Jon Bergmann at the Reach Every Student podcast here. You know, I think I found the answer in an email exchange that I had with a colleague in Brazil a few days ago. Silvio Dines, I think. Say, pronounce his name. He introduced me to the work of Professor Rodrigo Georgian, Georgian, Georgian. I'm not sure how to pronounce it. he talks about something called structural capture. For months, I've been warning you that if we use AI as a forklift, it'll stupefy our students. But what he says is he thinks that there's a bigger issue. This is this Professor Georgian. He says that I'll try and quote the system itself. The educational system has been captured by a results driven corporate logic. I got to thinking that that resonates with me. So I want to talk about how what I've been talking about the mastery flip and in previous podcast. It's not just a teaching method, but it's actually a tool to resist the captured teacher. So let's look at Georgia's hypothesis. He argues that, in the contemporary school globally here now it's results driven machine. And I've seen this for years. And he's just putting words to some of my thoughts when No Child Left Behind. I'm talking about US contacts, No Child Left Behind and all these other, and the Every Child Succeeds Act. It was so much about trying to get everyone to do the same thing, right? And we adjusted our curriculum. I'm not sure all that was bad, but. All right. Georgia says this is becomes a machine, and the teacher is no longer an intellectual author. They are the executor of scripts. So this is quotes from him, right? So think about it. If you're a teacher and you're forced to follow a protocol, right, or a platform, your autonomy is gone. You're just a human link in a machine that values efficiency over the human bond. So Silvio caused this is the double edged sword in this. And again, he's quoting from Giorgio is that he's got this teacher, fancy word. I struggle with fancy words. I'm not a fancy guy. Teacher Conversation. I think I'm saying it right. And the idea is the teacher has lost their autonomy, and you are just following a script and you're being an operator of scripts instead of an author of the learning. And then for me, I'm saying that that then leads students to Stupefaction. They use AI as a crutch because the machine only cares about the result and not the struggle. And so what happens then is then what happens with our students? If we value metrics over mastery, then using AI to cheat isn't actually laziness, it's actually a student trying to be efficient. So our students trying to be efficient. So then we're leading to human impoverishment. Impoverishment I think is the word I pronounce. So what is going on with our students oftentimes maybe it's not our fault. Not their fault, I should say, and not our fault. It's this system. We have a system wide problem that says we've got to follow this very specific script that values grades, that values compliance, that values all these things. And then what happens is the the deeper learning that we care about where our students thrive in the world. It doesn't happen. So. So how do we fight back? I think that's where my new paradigm of the mastery flip, works really well comes in. Silvio. Um, he said the three pillars are cracks, if you will, in the corporate machine. This corporate machine of the of the of the of the schools. And so if you think about the pillars, remember the three pillars of the mastery flip. If you haven't heard of them, listen to the previous podcast. Number one is we have AI engines. That's where I call for a whole new breed of engines of AI tools designed for schools. Because AI, as we know, was designed for companies and the boardroom and not for educators. Learning is messy. We know that learning is messy, and AI wants to make it efficient in learning is not an efficient process, right? So but that's pillar one. Pillar two is analog roots. routes. Let's return to paper, pencils, stuff like that. And number three is human checks. And when I talk about human checks, when I'm referring to is actually literally having conversations with kids, that is like how we assess kids. I still think we should write. I'm an author. I want students to learn how to write. But one of the key things I'm seeing is that when I have these one on one conversations with my students, it's such a valuable experience. So. So to go back to, Giorgio and if we think of it as resistance pillar two analog routes, which is weird. I'm saying going back to paper is the ultimate rebellion. So many times kids are just staring at machines. And I mean, our school has in my room behind me, they'll bring their laptops. I've got to say, everybody close your laptop. We're not doing laptop stuff. You're doing paper stuff today. Paper. And that's been a very powerful thing. So going back to paper is sort of an ultimate rebellion of the learning process, isn't it? Right. Wow. Just think about that. That's crazy, isn't it? It's having them do the heavy weight lifting without the outsourcing it to their device. They're having to use their own brain. Their own brain matters, right? So, you know, paper data isn't mined as much right, by the AI bots and all that stuff. That could just leave everything to this, I almost dystopian future. And then I think ultimately pillar three, which is the mastery check or the human check is what I call it. And a term I'm starting to liken it to is mastery. Viva. Viva is the Latin word for voice. So a student has to give a voice, and, you know, a student can't. They can't fake, an intellectual conversation with their teacher. They have to actually know the content so they can actually speak it. And that brings the teacher back, right? That prioritization thing is that the teachers are losing their their their voice. They're losing their autonomy. But if you are having to have that individual conversation with a student all of a sudden, wow, they are learning from you. they are having to explain to you it it empowers the teacher. And then another speaker that I've been I've been following a lot. Or he's an author, I've heard him speak is Stephen Bouchard. So, Stephen, he's a big advocate for debate centered model. He thinks that since AI can fake evidence. Right, right. The only thing left is the clash of the live human argument. So what he's saying is that what we need to do is return to like a debate format for assessment. So in many ways, his thinking and my thinking are very similar. I'm saying we want to do mastery checks, human checks, mastery, whatever you want to call it. And he's saying we need to move back to debate. So it's more argumentative and yeah yeah. See, as a science teacher, I'm not sure debate is going to be exactly the thing I'm looking for. But I do think the idea is just this oral check really matters. And as I would, I did a little research on Stephen Bouchard is that he he's a big person in the movement, for debate. And I didn't really realize this, but AI is really, um, upending the whole debate world because AI does so much of the research, and that's very powerful. But, how do you deal with that? And the answer, of course, is the audio talking debate. Now, maybe the AI can help coach you in your debate, but wow. Anyways, so I'd like to argue this in today's podcast, we need to combine my analog roots with you Will with Bouchard's debates. And also Giorgian is talking about we need to have a resistance movement. Now, I'm not a revolutionary in the truest sense of the word, but I'm not. He's not wrong. You see, we are at a civilizational knife's edge, right? We're at this knife's edge where AI can either take our students in one direction or the other. It'll take them to stupefaction, or to take them and supercharge them for life. And so we have to be very careful that as we teach our students, As we help them develop their own individual minds, which is this messy process. It's messy because it's not efficient. Learning is not an efficient process. It's a process that that goes here and here and here and there and up and down and all around. And it's it's much, much more messy. And you can't just follow a very specific script which AI wants to force our kids to do. And so much is going on in our world of education that is driving us to have this script model. And that script model is not what's going to be what's best for kids, because ultimately, I believe that how a society treats its kids says so much about a society. Can I say this? I think our society is designed. Humankind from eons ago is designed to take care of a next generation. And what's happening sometimes I'm seeing in our world is we're prioritizing adult happiness and adult comfort over kids. And whenever you see a society that devalues kids, um, that's a society in decline. And I don't want to be that society. I want us to return to the, the the highest priority of a society is to take care of the next generation. And this issue of AI, we are not taking care of the next generation. And we need to be the adults in the room, and we need to take care of them. And if that means we need to start a resistance movement, I don't know. To return to paper and pencil in our classes, to return to, oral exams, debate like Bouchard says to that effect, I think that is what that's the resistance right now. Again, I'm not against AI. I see appropriate uses for AI. It could coach the kid to prepare him for the oral exam. So many good uses. But if we take away the human brain, the human, social construct out, we lose. And. And the people who are hurt when we when we prioritize efficiency, when we prioritize. Adults are the kids. The kids are always the ones that get hurt. Hey. So thanks. This is a bit of a rambling podcast. I've just been thinking about a lot of different things running through my head as I, as I have, been deeply thinking about AI and its impact on society and particularly its impact on our students. And if you listen this long, I'm impressed. Thanks for listening to the Reach Every Student podcast with me, your host, Jon Bergmann If you like this, please subscribe to it and share it with your friends. that'd be awesome. Have a wonderful day. Jon Bergmann out.
